Talk:SoulCalibur II

Name

Technically, the title is Soulcalibur II. This should be altered. Saibh 11:32, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Actually, Namco's sites for the games consistantly type it out as "SOULCALIBUR"... So perhaps the article should be moved to "SOULCALIBUR II"? --Ando (T : C) 14:50, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I've got the game loaded up on my GameCube right now. All of the good soul weapons, there are three (Nightmare's, Xiangua's, and Talim's), are called "Soul Calibur". The title on the title screen is "Soul Calibur II". No matter how Namco likes to mess up the title on its site, the game's title is "Soul Calibur II". That's it. A move is in order.User:Matt/sig 02:21, July 4, 2008 (UTC)

I'm not so sure here. Why would Namco consistently spell it out in all caps, as one word? Look at this press release for the third game. But to be fair, this is all for the third game... I'm having a much more difficult time finding convincing evidence towards the second game's spelling. What to do, what to do? User:Ando/sig 05:45, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, the game is named after the sword. The sword is called "Soul Calibur". Therefore, the logical name is "Soul Calibur II". I'm not entirely sure on this, but I think that Namco likes to refer to its games in caps because of its history with arcade games. Many arcade games are limited to capital letters only. So Namco's spelling its games in caps is just a habit, not the actual name. Remember that the Nintendo system in question is called the GameCube, but the word on the system itself is "GAMECUBE". It is just a habit that companies have because they think it would look better in that situation. In this case, "SOULCALIBUR II" is an incorrect title and is not appropriate for a wiki. "Soul Calibur II" is the proper title.User:Matt/sig 06:14, July 4, 2008 (UTC)

according to the game, the name is SOULCALIBUR II.

I own the game. I'm reading the case, even as I type this. Throughout the booklet, the title is written like this, eg.

"Place the SOULCALIBUR II disc on the disc tray with the label facing up and close the disk tray."

An excerpt from the instruction booklet, that. --Yuvorias, 17:55, 4 July 2008 (EST)

Regarding the GameCube, that's mildly different in that the console itself has the logo -- logos can have entirely different capitalization than what the company actually wants. But then again, you say that if the game itself says "Soul Calibur II", that should be the title, not what Namco says. If so, then if the GameCube itself says "GAMECUBE", should not that be the title as opposed to what Nintendo says? Obviously not, as it's referred to as such in one or two instances (in this case, the logo and the logo alone). Throughout the manual and all of Nintendo's press releases and promotional material, they spell it as "GameCube", which is exactly the same scenario as Namco and "Soul Calibur / SOULCALIBUR". User:Ando/sig 14:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I suggest: moving this page to Soul Calibur II, then stating in the article that the game is also referred to as "SOULCALIBUR II". Fair enough?User:Matt/sig 14:34, July 4, 2008 (UTC)

I'll still hold that "SOULCALIBUR II" is the proper title, but I think that I can live with this. User:Ando/sig 14:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wait a second. Wikipedia has the article titles for each of the games as a combination of the two: "Soulcalibur". Perhaps we should go with this? I believe that there are two different ways of typing the phrase, personally: The weapon is "Soul Calibur", but the game is "Soulcalibur". User:Ando/sig

Soulcalibur is now officially one word, no longer two, and plus why the hell is it in all caps!?!? GunMetal Angel

The above discussion explains all of that. User:Ando/sig 00:38, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I read it, and sites and things that promote or publish something write their products in all caps to make it seem more Attention catching, such as I have an old walkthrough guide for the classic Doom II and everytime when "Doom II" was written it always was written such as "DOOM II" this article should have lowercase letters in the sense of how it does in the Wikipedia article for this game. GunMetal Angel

That makes sense. Well, I think a delete and a move is in order. From this and the way the title is pronounced in the game, the title is "Soul Calibur II".User:Matt/sig 05:32, July 14, 2008 (UTC)

It should be done imidiately, the title of this article ridicules the actual game name. GunMetal Angel

Naming poll

Okay, okay, hang on. I'd like a vote on this, to make it easier to see where we all stand. Poll closes in a week (7/24/08). The poll now ends on August 24, 2008 to allow for extra votes and vote reconsiderations after new evidence for one side has been presented. A new section was added as well, for those who wish to vote for it. User:Ando/sig 22:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this is a crazy and stupid argument. Please vote anyway. :P

SUPPORT FOR "SOULCALIBUR II"

1. This is my pick! It's how Namco types it in ALL promotional material, and I'd trust the creators of the game before the publishers. User:Ando/sig 04:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
2. I agree with both Ando and the instruction booklet. --Felicia's Champion 12:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
3. Change my vote! I own the game. Its in the manual. Its SOULCALIBUR II.--Magnus orion 00:54, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

SUPPORT FOR "Soulcalibur II"

1. The game has it as one word. Therefore, it is to be 1 word. User:Seablue254/sig 23:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
2. The first Soulcalibur game was two words, and I have owned Soulcalibur II for over 5 years now, I beat it when I was 10, and I'm bored to death with it and don't even play it anymore (that's how much I've played it), just because the title is "Soulcalibur" doesn't mean the sword name is one word too. Also proof on Wikipedia[1]. I pay my regards to one word, the only thing that really borthers me is that it's in all caps. GunMetal Angel
3. Here's my vote. The reason? That's how it is at Wikipedia. I know they're not a source, or necessarily right about anything. But they've already had this discussion there and decided on this title as an encyclopedia-style compromise. All three suggested variants are/have been used in official sources, but this is the most appropriate, and possible the most frequently used. User:Adamcox82/sig 05:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
4. The official trademark is "SOULCALIBUR," (all trademarks are listed in all caps on the US Patent Office's website) which is probably why Namco is choosing to type it in all caps, to let people know that it's a trademark. Obviously, we have no need to let people know that, so there's no reason to put it in all caps. --Hisak 07:43, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
5. My points would just be echoes now. Let's just get it over with and move the page. --Douken 06:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

SUPPORT FOR "Soul Calibur II"

1. First of all, in the opening screen of the game, it is pronounced as two words. There is a significant pause between them. So long of a pause that it cannot possibly be one word. The game is named after the weapon. The weapon's name is "Soul Calibur". That is two words. As far as the title on the title screen looking like one word, the disks for many Harry Potter games have what looks like "HarryPotter". A few Star Wars games look like "STARWARS". But take notice that the "C" in the title for the game in question is really big. That classically means another word is started and the normal space is left out because the big letter would serve the same function. So the title is "Soul Calibur II".User:Matt/sig 23:24, July 17, 2008 (UTC)
      ADDITION:
      Wikipedia is not a valid/reliable source. Nintendo is however. Nintendo says it is "Soul Calibur II". Nintendo issued the licensed for the game. And Nintendo says it is "Soul Calibur II". That is the end of it.User:Matt/sig 02:01, July 24, 2008 (UTC)
   Other sources include: Game Rankings, GameFAQs, Amazon, Google, GameStats, PlayStation.com, & Xbox.com)

Comments

• Why then, Matt, does the manual AND all of Namco's official stuff say "SOULCALIBUR" instead of "Soul Calibur"? Do you have an explanation for this? User:Ando/sig 03:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
• It is because that is how Namco draws attention to the fact that it is a title of something rather than a normal word. Note how Namco spells its name like "NAMCO". Remember that Namco is a Japanese company and there is no "Namco of America" company like Nintendo has.User:Matt/sig 03:13, July 24, 2008 (UTC)
  • It seems that there is a NAMCO BANDAI Games America Inc. Although I doubt it is comparable to Nintendo of America Inc. Also, capital letters are used for emphasis.User:Matt/sig 03:25, July 24, 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm confused as to what Namco being a Japanese company has to do with ANYTHING, but okay, whatever. Why would they need emphasis with this, though? I've never seen any other game do this... Not even any other Namco games. I just flipped through the Tales of Symphonia manual (made by Namco) and it was all typed out as "Tales of Symphonia". No all caps. (Also, I'm not sure how half of those sources you cited [especially Google] are any more reliable than Wikipedia.) As a final note, this IS still a poll, and quite frankly, you're outnumbered... The only thing I could do at this point is extend the duration of the poll to give people time to view your new evidence and potentially change their choice. Otherwise, majority rules, as has been the case with, well, pretty much every decision we've had to make. :P User:Ando/sig 03:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
• Extend the poll by one month. That will give plenty of time for others to vote.User:Matt/sig 03:46, July 24, 2008 (UTC)
  • Good grief, a whole month? I suppose I could do that. It's not like this is such an important page that a decision needs to be reached right now, so... Alright. A month it is. User:Ando/sig 03:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Check this out. Perhaps it will give you some perspective on this issue. Maybe then you'll realize that the game company's word is not law.User:Matt/sig 04:14, July 24, 2008 (UTC)

"...and I think that's ridiculous enough to over-rule. Ditto for companies who insist you use all caps for their product name."

• One man's opinion is hardly factual evidence. This whole new part of your argument seems extremely flawed to me. It sounds to me like you're saying that the correct title is SOULCALIBUR II, but that we shouldn't do that for the sole reason of "that's how Namco types it". In actuality, we should. This Wiki is for factual information, not for "well, I think that the way that this company types it is weird and stupid and so we shouldn't do that". We just need to determine what the factual information IS. Also, in case anyone cares, I've sent off a letter to Namco themselves asking them what the correct title is. I'll post the letter here once I've received an answer (sure enough they're gonna say "Soul Calibur", knowing my luck :P). User:Ando/sig 04:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
• Your points are valid, but all the same, so are his. I just thought that the article was interesting. I still don't think Namco is giving the right name on its site. Besides, having a name in all caps is not acceptable grammar. So yes, SOULCALIBUR II is wrong, whether Namco likes it or not. I can't prove it, but I know I'm right.User:Matt/sig 04:59, July 24, 2008 (UTC)
  • Yeah, it was definitely an interesting article, I'll give you that. Regarding "having a name in all caps is not acceptable grammar", well... technically, neither is "GameCube" or "GameFAQs" or "PlayStation" or, well, a lot of stuff. And yet you seem to think that these are acceptable...? User:Ando/sig 05:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
    • Adam, you are a BEAST. Thank you; I'd tried looking for that discussion but found nothing. Rather eye-opening to see the trademark information. User:Ando/sig 12:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

	Check this out. Perhaps it will give you some perspective on this issue. Maybe then you'll realize that the game company's word is not law.
— Matt

Disproving own vote ftw. User:Seablue254/sig 14:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

---

This is nearly political -_-. I have a feeling it's not gonna be changed today. GunMetal Angel

Is anything gonna happen? It's been two days. GunMetal Angel

The poll was extended by a month about three days ago. User:Ando/sig 22:51, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

	The poll now ends on August 24, 2008 to allow for extra votes and vote reconsiderations after new evidence for one side has been presented. A new section was added as well, for those who wish to vote for it. - 22:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
— Ando

You missed something in bold font. At least I'm not the only one with bad eyesight :D. User:Seablue254/sig 00:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
(Lines added in to separate this from argument in "Comments")

---

Who would know the name better than the Japanese? According to them it is "Soul Calibur II". There is no doubt. That is what it says. The game's name in Japanese is ソウルキャリバーII. I tried about a dozen online translators. While many of them were different, none of them translated to "Soulcalibur II" The part before the "II" is always two or more words, not one. The name "Soul Calibur II" is not only the name I prefer, but it is the correct name. There is no debating that point. It is what it is. And that is that. Time to move the page to "Soul Calibur II".User:Matt/sig 00:36, August 24, 2008 (UTC)

'Didn't knew there was a debate for this. I always thought Soul Calibur II was the name, I never use all caps for a title so I've always used that. User:Steven/sig 21:28, August 23, 2008

XD Matt, did you seriously just try using an online translator to prove your point? Japanese doesn't have spaces between words (except in certain cases, such as things geared towards younger audiences), so obviously a computer translator (which is FAR from perfect) is going to automatically add a space because it recognizes two distinct words: "Soul" and "Calibur". They do not, however, recognize the trademark "Soulcalibur", hence they will not translate it as such (speaking of which, did you notice this which Adam had posted a while back? I found it pretty definitive). Computers are the absolute worst at translating Japanese to English. I thought I made that pretty clear the last time we had this discussion. :/

Anyway, poll ends tomorrow, peeps. On the 25th (UTC), the page will be moved to the choice with the highest votes, regardless of what others believe to be the "correct title". User:Ando/sig 03:01, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Google hits. You may not like them. But that will tell you what is the preferred name by most people in the world.

• Soulcalibur II — 741,000
• "Soulcalibur II" — 112,000
• Soul Calibur II — 1,510,000
• "Soul Calibur II" — 468,000

Obviously, there is a preferred name here. Just look at the Japanese Wikipedia page for it. It is translated into English there. And on that page, the game's name was translated by a human!!!! So that is what the name is, not just what I think it is. Here is the link again: ソウルキャリバーII. Just look at the top of the page. You can't miss it.User:Matt/sig 03:25, August 24, 2008 (UTC)
Ando, I know you got a thing against online translators. They are not as bad as you make them out to be.

You said: "Just look at the Japanese Wikipedia page for it."

You also said: "Wikipedia is not a valid/reliable source."

You see where the conflict is here.

Anyway, as I said above, I don't understand how Google is a reliable source for, well, anything. But if you're gonna cite them, well, here:

• The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker — 621,000
• The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker — 950,000

As you see, the most popular is not always the correct option. Most Google hits aren't from reliable sources anyway; likely just someone's blog or forum post or something. (Also, did you notice that the second result for "Soulcalibur II" is the official website for the most recent game, listing it as "SOULCALIBUR IV"?)

Yeah, anyway, I'm resigning from this discussion as it's clear to me at this point that neither of us are going to convince the other. User:Ando/sig 04:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Pfft. Whatev', yo. I've never had good luck with 'em. 95% of the time, they give me the wrong result, because they are very flawed. "私はアンドです" comes out as "I am and", which makes sense given the kana, but isn't correct in the context I want it, because AND ISN'T MY NAME, YOU COMPUTER. Same situation with the whole Soul Calibur vs. Soulcalibur thing.

Editing

Every time I try to edit this page I get an error. But I don't get it when I try to edit other pages... Does anyone know why? BanaBana 01:07, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

What kind of error? Internal service error? I was getting those on the Bombchu article and its talk page about a week ago. Forgot to bring it up on the forum, but it seems to have fixed itself since then. If that's what you're getting, you may just be able to wait it out, but I'm probably the last person I'd call an expert on anything involving computers, so I really don't know. Jimbo Jambo 20:42, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

ya I'm getting an "Internal Server Error." I'll just wait a while, try again and if I still can't I'll try to do something about it. BanaBana 23:54, 7 February 2009 (UTC)