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Zelda Wiki talk:Featured Content Disqualification
Limits, Goals, Support, etc.
Should we have a limit on how many articles/pictures can be up for disqualification? What do we do if we are against disqualifying something? Should we change the oppose to support headers, then add normal oppose headers? The goal here is to weed out the content that is sub-standard, not to take away the ones we simply dislike. This process should be more objective, and not based simply on opinion.--Matt 15:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- I figure a limit of four for each type of medium should be good, but something shouldn't be nominated just because there's an open slot; only if it really shouldn't be featured anymore. If against disqualifying something... perhaps it would be a good idea to do what you've suggested above. This page was really something thrown together pretty quickly in a rush to get a page like this up, so it's still a work-in-progress. --Ando 16:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I didn't think about a limit on nominations, but max four should be fine. After all, there are only 15 of each to choose from, many of which had the option of opposition votes when they were first nominated, so there shouldn't be that many "bad apples"!
- I did consider giving the option of "for" and "against" disqualification, but this would complicate things a great deal. The way I'd envisaged it working was, if there was something you didn't want to see disqualified you could just vote for something else so it'd get a higher score and get disqualified first. But if you want, I can add "Keep" and "Disqualify" headers for each, so that a "score" can be taken for each (e.g two votes to disqualify and one vote to keep = a score of -1, one vote to disqualify and three votes to keep = a score of +2). The problem would be in deciding how many votes to allow; since we couldn't allow unlimited free "keep" votes to mirror the unlimited oppositions on normal voting (surely nothing would ever get disqualified then!), I guess it would have to be a limit of one keep and one disqualify per category (so 4 votes per person per month overall). Phew! Thoughts? --Adam 17:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- Never mind, I just read the page and saw that you already beat me to it! I'll just make a few little changes. It does worry me slightly that the "keep" votes are unlimited though... --Adam 17:30, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I changed the "keep" vote amount to the same as the "disqualify": one a month. That should keep any eager-keepers out, yeah? :P Sorry, I was just kind of thinking along the lines of the other voting pages when I wrote that. --Ando 19:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- How are we going to decide if a disqualification fails or succeeds? Is it a certain amount of time at plus or minus score? Or is it at a certain score? Maybe we could have it succeed if it has been at -2 for two weeks. We could have it fail if it is at +4 for one week. We need to come up with a valid system now that we don't have to disqualify to make room for new content.User:Matt/sig 14:38, July 6, 2008 (UTC)
- I've been thinking about this recently, and I agree. The reason I haven't already taken measures to implement some kind of system is that, well, a new Featured Article is pretty close here, and so I figured that once that's ready I'll just wipe the existing FA with the lowest score and replace it with the new one.
- I'm hesitant to just remove Featured Content (FC) based on score alone -- because what would go in its place? I'd rather not have to re-number every FC template when one gets disqualified. Perhaps the new system should be as such: When a new item reaches 10 votes for nomination, we should check here. If something here has, say, a score of -2 or -3 or what-have-you, we'd replace its template with the new FC. If nothing has a low enough score (everything is at -1 or higher), the new FC would be added as a completely new template. Does this make sense or am I not being clear enough? :P I'm not very good at explaining things. —Ando (talk) 15:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds about right. But remember that at the moment we have a spare set of templates for a FA. I Think it is FA/31 and FA/32. We don't need four templates to the Pedestal of Time. But we are close to getting two new featured articles. The first one will go in template FA/31. Does that sound agreeable? If there isn't one suitable for disqualification when our second new FA is ready, then we have to make templates FA/35 and FA/36. I'll prepare the code changes in a text file on my PC. Does all this sound good to you?User:Matt/sig 16:03, July 6, 2008 (UTC)
- At least it makes the next featured article easy to add! Something good came out of it.User:Matt/sig 16:13, July 6, 2008 (UTC)
- I just had the greatest idea on how to easily change the Featured Content rotation templates! Without having to do the long, manual edits! No time for exact details now. I'm going to work on this right now. It might take me an hour or two. To work I go!User:Matt/sig 16:20, July 6, 2008 (UTC)
- Okay I know exactly what to do now. The catch is that it will still be on my PC. I'm writing a MS Excel file that will automatically generate the script for me so I can copy it over. I know how to do it. It will take a while to write. I'll be done with it sometime later today.User:Matt/sig 17:08, July 6, 2008 (UTC)
- It is done! I can now easily generate any version of the Featured Content rotation templates that we need in only a few seconds! I've saved the file. The resulting script it generates can be copied directly into the templates here. It is awesome. That is one big problem solved!User:Matt/sig 17:54, July 6, 2008 (UTC)
Okay, so what about keeping content? How is that going to be decided?User:Matt/sig 18:27, July 7, 2008 (UTC)
- Also a very excellent point, and one that was never discussed given that the main idea of this system was to remove content, not to possibly keep it. I kind of dig your "if at +4 for a week it fails" idea you mentioned before. Shall we go with that? —Ando (talk) 18:32, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
- Seems good. The Link article isn't going to be disqualified, that is for sure. I would also like to point out that even if content is decided to be kept, is nomination for disqualifying can be great incentive for improving it. Which is, of course what this whole process is about in the first place. We need to make a page to put the content that was kept. It will be this page's analog of the "Fail nominations" page. I don't know what to call this new page though. I'll leave that up to you.User:Matt/sig 18:46, July 7, 2008 (UTC)
Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down there. Uh, I'm not entirely convinced that the whole "This is why the current featured articles are poor, so fix them" function is necessary -- if we have that, it basically makes the entire process of disqualifying unnecessary. The way I (and I guess others) envisioned it was to do what you did with the Link nomination: someone says "Look, it has this problem, disqualify it", someone else goes and fixes the problem, "Oh, doesn't have the problem anymore", everyone votes "keep" because of it. My thoughts, anyway.
But the pictures... perhaps there could just be a request to replace existing images with the improved versions? And as for your description of why "Link's piggy pals" should be disqualified (simple, uninteresting, etc.), those aren't valid reasons. The Featured Picture criteria states, and I quote:
- "They may be deemed worthy of being featured by merit of an important or rare subject, or simply for being visually interesting."
- I expected complaints. But the lists should stay. Our goal is to improve our featured articles THe list will let people know that they need to do just that. By meeting criteria, that means that the failed to live up to the criteria for them to be featured in the first place. they are in those two links at the top that quite clearly say criteria. I tried to keep things as opinion-free as possible. If I had it my way there would be three times as many images up. If we have to reword then do it. But seriously, think Ando. Do we really want a disqualification vote like this: "This page doesn't have enough sources. We should disqualify it.--UserA Agreed. Not enough sources --UserB Whoa! This article is good!--UserC Sources added--UserD"? That is just ridiculous and a complete waste of votes that could go to something that matters. My list idea will solve that problem. It is a new idea, so yeah we will have to work out a few kinks in it.User:Matt/sig 12:38, July 8, 2008 (UTC)
- I figured you'd bring that point up. But then again, what do we do with the disqualification system? It's essentially rendered useless by this listing. By this point there are no Featured Articles that are just so horrendous and poorly-made that they can't be easily fixed by adding a source or what-have-you, so I can't see needing this system for "those really bad articles" that aren't likely to exist anyway. —Ando (talk) 13:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, we are generally more careful about what we let get featured nowadays. I have been thinking that this disqualification voting would be short-lived. It's not like we have a ton of things to choose from. We could still keep this active though. We could encourage improving articles. But we should keep this operation for the content that slips through that should not be there. (Dodongo? Boomerang? Come on! That is just stupid) I'm not sure we should just "replace" a featured image with a better version. That is not exactly fair.User:Matt/sig 13:08, July 8, 2008 (UTC)
But again, the images are often nominated simply for looking good. Death Sword looks awesome, and the picture itself is of an insanely high quality (which... actually gets me to questioning where it came from, given the oddly-colored background). Plus, you said that the reasoning that the Death Sword image shouldn't be featured is because it was superseded by a newer, transparent image. If that's the case, simply replace the image. Done.
But hey, what do I know? If you think it needs to be done, nominate it for disqualification. That's what it's there for, you know. Granted, we already have four images that don't look like they're going anywhere... What to do, what to do... —Ando (talk) 17:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
- We disqualified and then nominated for the last image replace. The third image in the list was not chosen by my personal opinion. It was chosen based on the the other nominations for disqualification. That the the fairest way to do it.User:Matt/sig 17:26, July 8, 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm going to reword this section I made here and make it more polite and open. I think we can all agree that images are too subjective to opinion so I removed the gallery in that section and asked not to have more placed there. I also hate that our criteria links to the template. So I'm making a new page that has this. I'll work on it now. I'll save this page now and work on that. Am I correct in assuming that these criteria lists should be in the namespace "Zelda Wiki.org"? I'm going to make these pages now. This save of this page will link to the featured article criteria page. Please, no one make that page and/or change it. I'm going to work on it. Once I'm done, go right ahead and make any necessary changes to it.User:Matt/sig 20:15, July 12, 2008 (UTC)
- Looks like no one showed before I finished. So, what do you think?User:Matt/sig 20:46, July 12, 2008 (UTC)
Are we even using this page anymore? I know that it has been suggested about three or four times to just flat-out replace existing featured images with new, better images. But that defeats the whole purpose of this page. What are we going to do?User:Matt/sig 03:32, August 24, 2008 (UTC)
- Using, no. Looking at periodically, yes. --Felicia's Champion 09:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC)