April 14th, 2019 SSBU Music Icon.png Wiki Weekly - Issue 12 SSBU Music Icon.png

Cadence of Hyrule has recently been announced!
Want to contribute on music related pages? We've collected a list of things to do. Take a look!

Latest Announcements

Talk:Oshus

From Zelda Wiki, the Zelda encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Possible Japanese etymology (my own hypothesis):

Oshus' name in Japanese is シーワン (shiiwan). I suspect that "shii" is just the English word "sea" (this is how the Japanese would transcribe/pronounce it). Also, "wang" is Chinese for "king" (it is the Chinese reading of the character "王") which the Japanese would pronounce "wan". Thus I believe that his Japanese name is "ocean king" in an English-Chinese combo ("sea-wang"), which seems really reasonable since that's his real identity.

I specifically created an account just to bring this up... :P (I couldn't find a similar theory anywhere on the internet.) Is this something that should be added to the article?

-ebenezer

I can't say I'm entirely convinced it's not just a coincidence, but I don't see a problem with adding this under a "Trivia" section.
Welcome to the wiki, by the way! For future reference (we hope you'll be sticking around!), please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). This automatically generates your username as well as timestamp, which lets everyone know when the post was made. — Hylian King [*] 00:36, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Ok, thanks! I added it under "Trivia". I'm quite sure that this theory is true, and so is my friend who's better at Japanese than I am.
I came up with this on my own, but I googled it in Japanese and found a lot of pages with the same conclusion. See e.g.
[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]
Even if you don't know any Japanese at all, you can search for "sea" on the page and look nearby for the 王 (wan/wang) and シーワン (shiiwan).
Ebenezer 20:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

THEORY. Oshus based on Proteus. Asking for approval.

This is a theory I and I alone came up with, and I'm asking for approval to add it to the page, as you're supposed to do for theories. The theory is: Oshus is utterly based on the Greek god Proteus.

The evidence is, note that I have MUCH evidence:

-Proteus was commonly referred to as "the Old Man of the Sea" in Greek mythology, just as Oshus actually is an old man of the sea.

-Proteus was known as a shape-shifter, commonly turning into sea creatures, just as Oshus turns into a whale at the end of PH.

-They both prefer to take the form of old men

-Proteus could foretell the future, and if I remember correctly, so could Oshus (That could be wrong, been forever since I played PH.)

-They're both shown to be extremely wise

-They are both sea deities

-I noted that MUCH of PH was based on Greek mythology, and this is no exception

-They even LOOK extremely similar, as shown in Ancient Greek paintings.

For more info on Proteus, just Google it.

My class at school is studying Greek mythology, and when we went over Proteus, I just noticed how similar they were in personality, description, even looks. Everyone who agrees this is a legitimate theory say "I." — ᏒᎬᎠᎬᎪᎠ64 00:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, personal theories are not admissible to articles. Only theories with reasonable community support and evidence are allowed (see policy here).
Please feel free to place this theory on your userpage. You can also start a thread on Zelda Universe's forums in the theorizing section. — Hylian King [*] 01:33, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
I read the whole theory policy before I posted that, just to make sure it was allowed. I'm pretty sure I posted that in the right spot, as the page clearly states: "When considering adding a theory to an article, it is best to propose the theory on the corresponding talk page, to allow its veracity and relevance can be discussed and a decision reached." It told me to get approval on the talk page, so that's what I'm doing, right? I do admit it's a personal theory, but I believe it has a 'reasonable' amount of evidence. I'm confused, what rule did I break here? ._. — ᏒᎬᎠᎬᎪᎠ64 04:16, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
Personal theories are inadmissible regardless. Please take a second look at the first bullet:
"Theories are to be reputable, show evidence to support them (see Help:Citing Sources), and have a reasonable amount of support or acceptance within the community. That is, they are not merely personal theories."
Sorry for the confusion. I've went ahead and clarified the policy. — Hylian King [*] 10:46, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
I can definitely see it, but to meet the wiki guidelines, you're going to have to get fandom support, which means proposing it on a zelda fanforum. Before you do, here's some improvements you could make:
  • Find a source for where Proteus is called the Old Man of the Sea. There are so many, many other sea deities as well, several of them associated with whales, that I wouldn't have a separate point for them being both sea deities.
  • Same with shape-shifting. Proteus is known for being particularly fond of it, but pretty much every god used it to the level Oshus did, so it's really irrelevant.
  • From what I remember, Proteus merely had answers for everything that could be known -- he wasn't able to tell the future. I don't remember Oshus ever seeing the future either. Wise plays into this, so I wouldn't list that as a separate point.
  • Find an actual greek painting that depicts Proteus similar to Oshus.
  • Give examples, with sources, of how PH is similar to Greek mythology. Key to getting community support is having evidence rather than vague claims about what mythology says -- if your theory gets someone pointing out a flaw in your claims before it gets off the ground, even if it's a very minor flaw, your theory is essentially dead in the water.KrytenKoro (talk) 21:47, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
This ^. Too many lists of similarities pick and choose their points out of context or from unreliable sources, or are straight out fabrications. Sources are absolutely vital, especially for something as obscure as this.

And this theory in particular, I have to say I am doubtful. Most or the similarities you listed are incredibly prevalent in fiction and mythology. Champion of Nayru (talk) 21:54, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

(Ignoring Champion of Nayru for a second.) KrytenKoro, I can and will do all of those things. In fact, I already have done most of them. -Proteus is called The Old Man of the Sea by Homer, the Ancient Greek author of The Iliad and The Odyssey, which are books of Greek fables. -Although every Greek god could shapeshift, Proteus did do it a lot more often then most gods. Oshus only changes form once, but into a whale. Proteus only changed into sea creatures, which of course include whales. Also there's the fact that they disguise themselves as old men. -Proteus could FORETELL the future, meaning he didn't actually know what was to happen unless he thought about it. I haven't beaten {PH} in about 4 years, so I can't remember if Oshus told the future or not...but I'm more sure than not that Oshus told the future some point in the game... But yes, both are extremely wise. -I did find a certain Greek painting of Proteus that portrayed him similar to Oshus. The painting showed him as half-sea serpent, but they both had long, grey, shaggy hair, and big grey tuft beards. -It'll take a while to actually make a list of similarities between PH and mythology. But I noticed a bunch while playing through the game. Anyway, I see all of your points, HK, KK, and CoN. I'll try to get this theory somewhere other than the wiki, and we'll see how many people agree. — ᏒᎬᎠᎬᎪᎠ64 23:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Not that I think this discussion should be perpetuated by any means, but I don't believe Oshus told the future; he simply knew what would come to pass if Bellum rose to power (and that's no different than dropping an object and saying it's going to hit the ground).
In any case, I would stress that you gather evidence with credible sources (and confirm/strengthen your list) before you go rallying for community support.
Additionally, instead of an artist's depiction of Proteus, perhaps it would be better to find in-text descriptions of him from the ancient works (if available). I don't believe any of PH is inherently based on Greek mythology, so you'll have to back that up strongly.
Also keep in mind that the reason Oshus is a whale is to provide a contrast to Bellum as a squid; they're mortal enemies, and it's the basis for their conflict in PH. If Oshus were based on a deity, then surely said deity would share some similarities towards the natural antipathy. - TonyT S C 00:22, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
I think Pakkun has the strongest point of all. I suppose I'll have to beat PH again, and this isn't the only reason; I barely remember playing it my first time.
The thought never even crossed my mind up until now that Oshus and Bellum were enemies based on giant squids and sperm whales! That's a good point.
Another reason I should replay PH is to look for similarities in Greek mythology. I've always been interested in mythology, so I have a lot of background knowledge in that stuff, and I made a new PH file a few months ago. I barely have been using the file, but as I go through I keep thinking to myself "Hey, just like in Greek legends."
Anyway, I'll go do some more research, and I'll be back in a few days/weeks with more evidence. I can tell there's mixed opinions here, but it really seems like a legitimate theory to me. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW? :P — ᏒᎬᎠᎬᎪᎠ64 04:30, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
"In fact, I already have done most of them." -- No no no, like Pakkun said you need actual citations. Just saying "it's in there" isn't gonna be near good enough for this kind of thing.
Homer calls several deities the "Old Man of the Sea". (source: Nereus and Phorcys)
Proteus can tell the future, but his main defining trait, beside rampant shapeshifting, is that he will do anything to avoid it -- the shapeshifting is in fact a defense mechanism to avoid having to do so. This is in stark contrast to Oshus.
As far as depiction, if you're talking about the one by Andrea Alciati, that portrait is both medieval, and in black and white (not depicting color). Furthermore, sea serpent is quite different from whale.
As far as the shapeshifting and whale thing goes -- as politely as possible, that is a Tuesday for any Greek God. There is nothing about that whatsoever that would be a special link to Proteus -- it's hardly even that interesting among Zelda characters.KrytenKoro (talk) 16:36, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Oshus - Ocean King

Before Oshus reveals the story of Bellum, he says "I am not Oshus. I am the Ocean King", Revealing that Oshus is simply a name he made up to conceal his true identity. So, Oshus is not actually his real name. TrueZelda (Talk) 23:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Or maybe not. He could just mean it as "I'm not just the old man you've always known me as. I'm actually the Ocean King." Either way, though, it's much more than just a fake name he gave himself - he has a very recognizable appearance and personality to go along with it, so it's just as real as "Ocean King" is. We don't start calling Sheik "Zelda" just because we know that it's her in disguise. Whisperstar13 (talk) 22:00, 11 February 2018 (UTC)