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Talk:Ghost (Majora's Mask)

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They aren't ghosts

Even Romani calls them aliens. Thus, they are alien, right? --Sk8torchic

Erm, Romani never states that they're aliens; nowhere in the game does the word "alien" appear. She doesn't really say much about what they are, actually. The Bombers' Notebook, however, DOES state that they are aliens, in this meeting reminder:
"Became ranch hand - Romani Ranch - Help get rid of ghosts at 2:30 a.m."
So... yep. That's it. --Ando (Talk) 20:41, 7 March 2008 (EST)

I don't think that "they" wiped Romani's memory. Considering how traumatic her experiance was, it is far more likely that it is a case of repressed memory (a type of amnesia). This would also make the argument that the Gormon Brothers are behind "them" far more plausible. Remember, they did manage to get a hold of at least three Garo's Masks. So their alleged control of "them" is not that big of a leap. Oh, and Ando. Did you mean that the Bombers' Notebook refers to "them" as ghosts or aliens? I can't recall the book's exact words.--Matt 13:44, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I know the words, and the magic answer is "ghosts". --Yuvorias, 23:46, 25 April 2008 (EST)
That's what I thought but could not be sure. Oh, and I personally don't think that the Gormon Brothers are behind "them". I was just saying that is is not as far-fetched as many believe it to be.--Matt 13:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep, same here. I mean, it's plausible that the Gorman brothers could repress Romani's memory somehow...
However, there is the matter of the cow abduction. How would that be explained, to make the Gorman Bros. guilty? I can't think of a way myself... --Yuvorias, 23:52, 25 April 2008 (EST)
That is why I don't believe it myself. I guess it could not be a matter of control, but one of cooperation of sorts between the brothers and "them". But I find that to be a little far-out.--Matt 13:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

No, i think they are aliens, a play on the crop circles abducting cow joke thing...luroberto 11:03 P.M. Novemer 13 2008 (ETC)

It's been a while since I played Majora's Mask, but I recall seeing a piece of paper tacked to the wall in the Music Box House that led me to believe "they" are Garo Robes. Or at least, that the residents of the Music Box House think so.--Drakvl 9:55 P.M. August 31 2010 (CDT)

They were talking about the Gormon Brothers because they had several of the Garo's Masks.User:Matt/sig 19:57, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
I'm actually currently trying to beat Majora's Mask. Nowhere in the game are they confirmed to be aliens. They are very commonly called just They, but the Gorman Bros. and the Bombers' Notebook BOTH call They 'ghosts'. β€” α’αŽ¬αŽ αŽ¬αŽͺᎠ64 03:57, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
As mentioned above and in the article itself, only the Nintendo Power magazine refers to them as aliens. - TonyT S C 04:38, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
The official OST calls them aliens. The theme that plays during their attack is titled "The Alien Raid". It's clear that they're supposed to be aliens, and they're just referred to as "ghosts" and "they" by Terminans because they aren't familiar with the concept of aliens. If they were just ghosts, they would be called that all the time. Plus they're clearly a reference to cattle-stealing aliens stories, appearing after a light shines on the sky at night and stealing cows. They also have that otherwordly, non-humanoid form, unlike ghosts in Zelda; no Zelda ghost I know of has things like crab pincers instead of hands. The fact that this is even a debate is ridiculous; not everything has to be spelled out by the game. Please rename the article. Redd (talk) 14:36, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Look at it this way: the page title is not claiming that they are ghosts. Instead, they are aliens with the name of "Ghost". No matter their species, this is their name. Just like naming a cat "Dog". Does that make it a dog? No. Should you call it "Cat" instead of its name? Nope. Peanutjon (talk) 15:05, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Hands down, the article will not be renamed, though we do make mention that they're known as aliens in supplementary material. We go by games first, supplementary material second, and that's non-negotiable. - TonyT S C 15:57, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
First, by that logic, we shouldn't be using the Hyrule Historia information for the timeline article. Second, it's not just supplementary material. The theme "The Alien Raid" is part of the game itself. Third, the game itself makes it clear that they're supposed to be aliens. And fourth, tell me: If they're ghosts rather than aliens, why do they steal cows by sucking them into the sky, and where are they taking them to? What kind of ghosts abduct living beings by taking them into the sky? Redd (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
  1. Hyrule Historia is a special case wherein printed media is equivalent to the games. It was written directly by Miyamoto and Aonuma and establishes the timeline which is our framework.
  2. I'm not sure where you're getting the name "The Alien Raid" other than a YouTube video. Regardless, there is no scenario in which this isn't supplementary material at best.
  3. Doesn't matter. They're not called aliens in-game.
  4. See #3.
I'm sorry to say there is no way that this article is being moved. I agree with the thought that they're aliens, but the move can't be justified because policy doesn't allow it. - TonyT S C 20:36, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
The song in the official soundtrack is called "Ghost Attack", not "The Alien Raid". - Chuck * (Talk) 05:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Can we not just stick with my explanation that, regardless of their species, their name is Ghost? That takes a lot less argument because everyone wins. Peanutjon (talk) 11:22, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Subrosians?

Does anyone else think they look like Subrosians? Nicktheslayer 22:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

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Them in FPTRR?

I really think this should be added to the article. Sometimes, if you talk to Pinkle, she says,

Quote1.png Hey Tingle! Have you ever heard this story? You've seen the cows in Lon Lon Meadow, haven't you? Those cows have odd faces and huge eyes, don't they? I heard that they used to look just like normal cows... Then one night, a ball of light landed in the meadow... They said that the cows disappeared in a flash! Out of nowhere, the cows reappeared the next day. But... All of the cows' faces had changed to look like they do now. Well... It's not much of a story. Wait a minute! Tingle, your face is a bit... You've got big eyes, a thin face... You're not related...? No!! No!! Are you... related to those cows?! I was only joking! Tingle, I think you're very handsome! Quote2.png
— Pinkle

Spoon Link 15:05, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

It could be a reference to Them, but it could also just be a reference to aliens in general. Reign 18:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Move to "Ghost"?

Since the game specifically calls them ghosts, surely that's a more appropriate name for the page? I had trouble finding this page on it's own. "Them" is more than a little vague (especially as Romani says "they" anyway). Also, they're called Ghosts in Japan too... yes, yes, it's obviously an alien reference, or more specifically a reference to the Flatwoods monster (which wasn't necessarily an alien), but there is no evidence that they are anything more than just creepy cow-stealing Poes in the Zelda universe. There are at least two occasions where the game calls them ghosts, and the balloons Romani puts up look like Poes. Whether they're aliens or not, the game calls them ghosts, and "Them" is a pretty rubbish title for a page. User:Fizzle/sig 17:29, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Ghost should probably be moved to "Ghost (Link's Awakening)" as well, so we can use that page for disambiguation. β€” Hylian King [*] 23:43, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Same, also agree to turning Ghost into a disambig page. --Dany36 02:46, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, if they're referred to as ghosts, it's reasonable to change it to that. - TonyT S C 05:08, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Makes sense to me. Should "Them" continue to exist as a redirect to that page? Kurtis C. 08:04, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I would say so. I imagine that, given how long we've had the name, a fair amount of people know them by that name. It would just prevent confusion, and I don't think we'll be using the page for anything else. - TonyT S C 15:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Glad to see there's agreement, I was worried it'd be an issue since there are a bunch of people who are insist they are DEFINITELY aliens. Heck, they might be, but aliens don't really even exist as a concept in the Zelda universe, so yeah. And I'm fine with a disambiguation too, Ghost is pretty vague, it can cover Ghini too, they're called Ghosts sometimes. User:Fizzle/sig 15:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Except the new article name is inaccurate as it's obvious that they aren't ghosts at all, they're just called that by Romani because she doesn't what they truly are, most likely to show that the concept of aliens isn't widely known in Termina. Should we deduce that Link is a grasshopper because that's what Romani calls him? NOWHERE in the game it's tuly implied that they're actually ghosts. Ghosts in Zelda behave totally differently; they don't come from the sky through light beams, invade ranches at night, steal cattle using teleporting light beams, or look like them. The balloon Romani uses to practice for the invasion shows what she thinks they look like, and it looks nothing like them; instead it looks like an actual Zelda-ish ghost. The developers clearly made the balloon look so differently from the aliens to show how foggy Romani's understanding of what these beings are and look like is. The only reason she thinks they're ghosts is that she's under the impression that they look like this: http://www.zeldawiki.org/File:MM_TheyPracticeBalloon.png
As for the concept of aliens not existing in Zelda, these are clearly aliens, so it looks like it does, at least in Termina. - Dere 09:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
They clearly are intended to be aliens, yes. I don't think anyone disputes what kind of creatures they are intended to represent. But, as stated above, no where in the game are they actually called Aliens. They're only referred to as "Them" and "Ghosts." At Zelda Wiki, canonicity supersedes fan-speculation, even if most fans feel similarly. β€”Embyr 75  --Talk-- 16:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
The official Nintendo Power guide calls them both aliens and ghosts, so both terms are valid. The games are the ultimate source of canon, though, and as Embyr said, "ghost" is the only term used in game (not just by Romani and Cremia, but in the Bombers' Notebook, too). β€” Hylian King [*] 20:33, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Edited a chunk. My thinking is: the part that uses "outside" information (ie: Earth and UFO culture) needed to be separate: that the in-universe information is that they "are" ghosts, even though we, the players, know they're aliens. Xu-kitty 12:06, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Good call! β€” Hylian King [*] 16:15, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Pertinent Information

While its canonical status remains in question, the track listing for The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask Official Soundtrack explicitly refers to the song that plays during the battle against "Them" as "Alien Attack". However, in the game, "They" are referred to as ghosts by both Romani, Cremia, and the Bombers' Notebook. This may be a false assumption though on the part of Romani, as she is likely aware of the existence of ghosts, but may not have a concept of aliens from another planet. When Cremia refers to "Them" as ghosts, however, she is probably regarding the stereotypical beliefs that a childish youth such as Romani may have. This is supported because Cremia puts the word "ghosts" in quotation marks, suggesting that she is saying this in a disapproving manner. - From Zeldapedia. Servantofgod (talk) 00:51, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

How much commentary and explaination

I've noticed that much of this article is not about the aliens/ghosts as they appear in game, and more about their origins. Should that information be scaled down? Perhaps we can make a origin analysis segment standard for these types of articles. I personally have no imput in this, but I wished to bring this tone community's attention. Champion of Nayru (talk) 16:10, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

The whole 'Cultural Analysis' section seems a bit off to me. It isn't about the Ghosts or anything Zelda-related, and the tone of the section overall doesn't fit with the rest of the wiki. I think it's best if the section was removed, as the trivia section already references the ghosts' alien-like behaviour. But also I don't have any input in this, maybe someone should bring this to the attention of a higher wiki member. Ymcan64 09:21, 30 December 2014 (CET)

Origin?

Alright. As we all know, Din made the earth, Nayru made the natural laws, and Farore made life. Clearly, this story is only about a SINGLE chunk of rock: Earth. In Hylian mythology, the Golden Goddesses only made Earth, right (excluding moon, sun, stars and a few dimensions)? So it would go against that idea if there was another planet... There's really only three explanations: Their stories are simply WRONG about one planet, they come from another dimension, or they're not even alien...they're just hiding somewhere in Termina. Any comments on this? Does anyone think they have a good idea on where they come from? Hylians believe in only one planet, right?! :/ β€” α’αŽ¬αŽ αŽ¬αŽͺᎠ64 04:13, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

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Champion of Nayru (talk) 01:30, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Garo Quote

I'd like to discuss the whole Garo passage and whether it truly applies to the Ghosts or not. I recently got feedback from someone who, after doing research, says that the brothers use this passage when (after) the aliens attack. I think we need to confirm that it's only after the aliens attack (especially if it's only when Link fails to save them). It wouldn't be the first time the game's used text for a situation that applies to a different event (there's some strange deal with the apprentice atop the Clock Tower on the First Day, since you can coax him into leaving to give you the Wallet at the Oceanside Spider House and the Carpenter at the base of the tower will continue to "talk" to him as if he were still there.) If the quote also occurs after the brothers attack the wagon, I'd be willing to say it was more an error in programming and it refers to that event instead. It simply doesn't make sense for them to wear Garo masks but not talk about themselves when mentioning both that "Garos" appeared and that their wagon was attacked. We have both the English version and the Japanese version here for the sake of reference (Thanks to Vaati The Wind Demon for translating):

English Text Japanese Text Japanese Translation
Seems some monstrous Garos
appeared at Romani Ranch
yesterday.
And I heard the wagon carrying
their milk was attacked.
I tell you, that's a dangerous
place...
Seems like we're the only ones
who have any milk left.
Hyuh, hyuh.
γͺんか 昨ζ—₯ γƒ­γƒžγƒ‹γƒΌη‰§ε ΄
γƒγ‚±γƒ’γƒŽ ガロ がでて
γƒŸγƒ«γ‚―γ‚’δΉ—γ›γŸ 馬車が
γŠγγ‚γ‚ŒγŸγγ†γ˜γ‚ƒγ­γˆγ‹
まったく あそこはキケンγͺ場所
Something happened at Romani Ranch yesterday!
Garo monsters were leaving
The Wagon delivering the Milk!
It was likely attacked, was it not?
That place is absolutely dangerous!

Honestly, given the JP translation, it seems like it's meant to refer to the incident where they attacked (since it specifically mentions them leaving the wagon that was delivering the milk, and that it appears to have been attacked. My apologies for undoing your edits, Darth Nightmaricus, but I would appreciate your participation in this discussion if you can find the time. - TonyT S C 06:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

After doing research for an hour, I found out the text is only seen by joining Cremia for the milk trip, then failing it and talking to the Gorman Bros. Day 3. It will not appear if you don't join Cremia, it's necessary for you to see them break the milk so the text will trigger. If you talk to them without seeing it, they will only mention that they are the only ones to sell milk. From this we can conclude that the line refers to the Gorman Bros. breaking the milk and not having anything to do with the Ghost's. PPLToast (talk) 14:31, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
But the thing is, the milk jars being broken did not happen on Day 1. It happened about a week or so prior to the game's events. So it can't be that. There was no milk jars being broken on Day 1, which is what day they speak of. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 22:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's been proven that the quote given occurs on the Final Day, and they specifically speak of the wagon carrying milk being attacked, which is exactly what happens on the Second Day. Nobody is claiming that they're speaking about the First Day besides you.
To reiterate, they only say this line on the third day. It's been tested. The Ghosts appear on the first night, not the "yesterday" that they mention (Second Day). Similarly, the bottles in question are the ones on the wagon on the Second Day, when the brothers attack while wearing Garo Masks. All reason points to the brothers bragging about themselves and their success in impeding the Romani Ranch. - TonyT S C 23:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)