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Talk:Characters in A Link Between Worlds

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"Shannon" the Ganon girl.

There's a piece of concept art released the second of October featuring a picture of what appears to be a female Ganondorf. There's no article or information about her yet, but around the Zelda Universe forums she's referred to as "Shannon". Could we make a speculative article about her?

Here's the concept art Dekler (talk) 13:12, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, as you said, it would be a speculative article. There's nothing canon to base it on, so I would say it's not even worth a page. I think it's just better for that sort of thing to simmer with the fandom.
Even if there were any information, I would say that placing the speculative stuff on it would be a bad idea. Very little of the page would be factual information, muddled down with almost certainly incorrect information. (Incidentally, I don't think the gender's even confirmed.) - TonyT S C 15:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Agreed, it's not long til the game comes out or we find out the character's name on a website, so lets be patient. There's not much to say about any of these characters yet that isn't just speculation. And yes, the gender of the character is questionable, it looks more like a Ghirahim-ish wizard guy to me, since Aonuma seems to be fond of that. Probably just a nasty wizard demon trying to resurrect Ganon, or an Agahnim style alter-ego, but we can't know for sure. Fizzle (talk) 18:17, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
And as soon as I say that, we find out a ton of new information about him. His (or her) name is Yuga according to an IGN editor who was at an event today, and he can turn people into paintings, as seen in the new trailer also released today. Fizzle (talk) 19:28, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Ganon

There has been some debate as to whether Ganon should be listed as a main character or a secondary one.

In the interest of preventing further edit warring, we need to have a proper discussion about this and decide as a group where Ganon is to be placed. I haven't played ALBW, but please weigh in if you have.

So what are your thoughts? — Hylian King [*] 01:40, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm reluctant to even call Ganon a secondary character (though it would seem extremely odd to list him other "other"). Ganon's role in the game is very small. He's revived simply so that Yuga can take the Triforce of Power he possesses, and then Yuga takes on a Ganon-like form. The actual character we call Ganon only appears in the game for a moment. I do not think it is appropriate to label Ganon as a "main character." --Joshua (Yumil) (talk) 04:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Ganon appears at the start in Link's dreams, then is referenced for most of the adventure in Hyrule, he appears on the shrine in Hyrule castle which details the events of AlttP. He is then revived by Yuga and "joins with" him, creating some kind of hybrid which goes on to appear for the rest of the game - which while referred to as Yuga, Ganon is still a part of the joined creature. If Ganon is not in the Main Characters list, then neither should Zelda, as she barely does anything until the end of the game.--LordM (talk) 09:05, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
While it's Ganon's body that Yuga controls, it's apparent that Ganon's spirit died a long time ago (probably the botched resurrection in Oracles). The main villain of the game is Yuga, who takes on characteristics of Ganon due to merging with him.Ganondorfdude11 (talk) 09:42, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Ganon's spirit died? But what about the first Zelda, that happens after ALBW, and that ambiguously canon AST game happens after the Oracles.--LordM (talk) 11:06, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Ganon is also listed among the other main characters on the official site: http://www.zelda.com/link-between-worlds/history/. The site also reveals that Ganon is not "soulless" and was awaiting his return, it also calls him the "source of darkness".--LordM (talk) 13:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
If this is not enough evidence to place Ganon as a main character, then make sure to mention it, because I will place Ganon back on the list if there are no more complaints.--LordM (talk) 11:08, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Ganon is also listed as a main character on the Japanese site. I think, given the nature of Yuga after Ganon's return, Ganon is definitely a main character, despite the lack of a speaking role. His role is similar to Ganon in the Oracle games, where despite only appearing briefly and then not being "himself", he's still far too vital to the story to be considered secondary.
It's just a shame there was no real closure to those events, Yuga is just destroyed and presumably Ganon along with him, although it could be argued that this game explains how Ganon returns in The Legend of Zelda, if he survived and Yuga did not, much like Agahnim in A Link to the Past. But I'm getting into speculative territory. Fizzle (talk) 19:39, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Stalbind

Stalbind should be on the list of characters, unlike the other bosses who have no importance outside of fighting them, Stalbind has his own speaking line, and has his own identity as the boss of the thieves. This also applies to Blind in ALttP.--LordM (talk) 08:34, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

The reason I removed these is because, generally, singular bosses do not get an appearance on the character list, even despite having speaking lines. A number of bosses that appear in Link's Awakening, the Oracle games and potentially some others I am forgetting have speaking lines (often more than Blind!) but do not appear in their respective character lists. I'm not sure what we generally do in those situations but we don't seem to include them up to now. I'm willing to change my mind if anyone has a second opinion though. Fizzle (talk) 17:09, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Why does Twinrova get to be listed as a secondary character on the Ocarina of Time character list?--LordM (talk) 09:45, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Very good question. In my opinion it should probably be just Kotake and Koume listed individually. It may also be because they have appeared as characters (and a boss) in two other games, and they don't just appear at the start of the battle and say a line or two, so they get a bit of special treatment. I noticed King Bulblin also gets this treatment on the Twilight Princess page.
To be honest I hope someone else weighs in here, because I'm not entirely sure what's best to do. Blind and Stalblind both have a little bit of backstory to them and have some dialogue, so they have that in their favour. However, there are other bosses like the King Moblin, Grim Creeper and Vire who also get a lot of dialogue and a larger role than most bosses. Almost every boss in Link's Awakening talks too, which is a problem if we define a speaking line as being good enough to qualify as a character. Fizzle (talk) 14:17, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I would define it as having a story role outside of their dungeon, speaking or not. Volvagia's presence affects all of Death Mountain, whereas the Grim Creeper is meaningless outside of the upper floors of Eagle's Tower.KrytenKoro (talk) 17:06, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
The ONLY reason I would qualify Volvagia as a "character" is under the idea that like Jabu Jabu it is a deity of some sort. But in OoT it's pretty much just a monster, and it's never seen leaving the Fire Temple. You could argue that Gemesaur King is a character under those rules, as it is worshiped by fallen Lorule soldiers and has affected the area around it. Grim Creeper has way more "character" than both of them (and was arguably an influence on Skull Kid's design). Also you could argue that all the Nightmares in LA affect the entire island. Not sure a monster's influence necessarily makes it a character. I think at least SOME spoken lines in at least one game are vital, unless it's a final boss character. Fizzle (talk) 21:15, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
What I mean is, a character in a story has a role, has an effect on the plot beyond just "speaking" or "being there". A character need not even be sentient. Grim Creeper is certainly sentient, but there's not much to say about his role in the story; Volvagia, on the other hand, does have an impact on the story even if you view him as a dumb beast, and there is plenty to say to fill up a story synopsis.
Given the Gemesaur King's role in the story, I would definitely say that it would qualify as a character. It is the focus of worship for the characters in that region, the temple is dedicated to it, and its defeat actually has an effect outside of getting Link a shiny bauble. True, I may prefer Facade as a more entertaining boss, but he just...shows up. He's just a face that happens to be there, and serves as nothing more than a fleeting obstacle to Link.
Given the dearth of characters in LA, and the fact that Grim Creeper, like Vire, interacts with Link throughout the dungeon, I would actually consider him a character too. But forced to rank them, I would place Volvagia or Gemesaur King over him in terms of plot importance.KrytenKoro (talk) 21:39, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
As far as ALBW goes:
  • Stalblind
  • Gemesaur King
  • Yuga/Yuga Ganon
  • Gramps
All other bosses are simply interchangeable non-entities with less import than the dungeon puzzles themselves.KrytenKoro (talk) 21:40, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

I know that this does not apply to ALBW, but I think the Diabolical Cubus Sisters also apply (for PH).--LordM (talk) 10:24, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

I think this is a difficult issue, as to me, these are simply bosses with speaking roles for the most part. On the other hand, Blind the Thief is a character who became a boss. But it's really hard to consider something like Volvagia or the Gemesaur King as a "character". There are a number of minor enemies in the game who can also speak, such as Toppo, the hopping enemies from ALttP, or Cukemen. Are these characters?
The thing is, we already have a template for these entities. Just because something is on the "enemy" page doesn't make it less of a character. They are "enemy characters". In Japan there has never been much distinction, that's why a lot of monster lists in Japanese games are titled as "character list". Basically you have friendly characters and enemy characters and boss characters. It would seem redundant to me and arbitrary to pick and chose what enemies and bosses get into character lists and what ones don't. Heck, some of the regular enemies have way more depth and history than some of the friendly characters. I still think, aside from the MAJOR foes like Ganon and so on, we should keep them separate, if only because it's neater and easier to manage. Fizzle (talk) 02:24, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

A Good Rule Of Thumb

Since a bunch of these characters are still without their own articles, is there a deciding factor for which ones should be grouped with their counter parts, and which ones should not? I hardly want to make a mess that someone else has to come in and reorganize. --- Pixel TC 12:57, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Do you mean in parts where it says something like "Character (Lorule)"? If so, those should always be put on the same page along with the original (Hyrulean) counterpart. - TonyT S C 13:32, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
More or less yes. So if they share the same name they should be in the same article with their own sections Hyrule/Lorule respectively. So should the Lakeside Item Sellers have there own article, or still link to Merchants article with their names changed to Lakeside Merchants. Characters like Girl and Derby Girl should have their own pages? I guess I'm asking a pretty broad question at this point. With so much information still missing, I'm just questioning myself. I can't wait to do more of my normal contribution stuff when I can upload new versions of images. :) --- Pixel TC 13:58, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
This is getting into ambiguous territory, but I'll just say what I think of it:
  1. Yes, same name, under Biography header, put Hyrule and Lorule sections.
  2. I think it would be fair to give the Lakeside Item Sellers their own page. We don't merge Beedle or any other sales(wo)man with a name to Merchant, why do so for this?
  3. It's kind of difficult with Girl and Derby Girl. Honestly, I don't think Derby Girl is going to improve much, so it might be more sensible to redirect it. I think we should do all we can to make it a quality article before then (such as reffing). As for Girl/Boy, those could have articles, but it might follow something like Old Man/Old Woman. However, I don't feel things like Woman/Young Woman should have a page.
Thanks for bringing these up. And yeah, I can't wait until things return to normal, as well. - TonyT S C 15:04, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
And thank you for the good answers. It will probable be easier to organize when more information is posted/uploaded. I'm sure the reason these articles have been left alone for so long is cause of these kind of questions. --- Pixel TC 15:56, 27 August 2014 (UTC)