Talk:Archive:Timeline Theories/Split Timeline Disciplines
The Minish can't come first. If it does comes first then it contradict Link's (OOT) origin. The new Deku tree states his mother and him travel to the Kokiri village to escape the war, which before the king could unify the country. --Legend 03:17, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
LexLionHart: Removed "weaknesses" from New Child story that were either redundant (the one related to the TWW ending) or unrelated to timeline order (the question of whether or not the IW occurs during OoT or immediately before ALttP).
6/23: Removed a rehash of statements from the "weaknesses" section similar to those previously removed. Post-TWW 2D games do not depend on there being a connection between OoT and aLttP in any way. Possible connections help timeline orders; possible disconnections (like in the OoT/ALttP case) simply do not help, rather than detracting.
Removed weakness "*There is no documented existence of a bloodline related to the hero in TWW (or OoT)." As the Hero's Shield (in-game description says it was owned by the hero) implies a familial connection. TheManInTheMoon 10:22, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I know this is from a while ago... But something does not cease to matter because you think you've found a contradiction. But it's also stated in TWW that Link has no connection to the hero of time. And the shield could have belonged to any hero (I think the US translation may have messed up the ambiguity there, but the Japanese one is clear) - it looks nothing like OoT Link's shield. And it's simply a fact that there is no bloodline of OoT Link on the Adult Timeline, due to the split. Unless he knocked up Zelda before leaving, it's just stupid.
This relates mainly to the ALttP connection... And like it or not, that DOES matter. The entire foundation of placing ALttP after TWW is the OoT-ALttP connection. Without it, there's almost nothing, so don't decide for yourself which points don't matter. Intentional disconnections are clearly relevant evidence, and you can't try to hide them. --Impossible 07:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Quote: "There is no cohesiveness regarding the state of the Triforce between TP and ALttP." I'm wondering whether this point on the 'Weaknesses of the 2D Child order' section should also take note of the fact that Ganondorf's Triforce piece appears to leave him at the end of Twilight Princess, possibly suggesting that the Triforce has done its job and is going back to the Sacred Realm, leaving the timeline open for A Link to the Past. This might just be considered speculation, which is why I'm waiting for a second opinion before putting it onto the page, but I personally think it's worth a mention, as it gives a possible solution to this 'weakness'. I'll wait for a reply before doing anything though.--Murdokdracul 19:37, 14 May 2011 (EDT)
- That still doesn't solve the problem of what happens to the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage. At least the process of elimination can lead us to one of the only likely locations for the Triforce to return to in TWW's ending: the Sacred Realm. But there's really not enough information to safely say what happened in TP's ending concerning the Triforce. Jarsh 11:21, 24 May 2011 (EDT)
Quote: Sometime between OoT and TWW the Goron moved away from Death Mountain. This is clear as they are not present at Dragon Roost Island (which is commonly thought to be Death Mountain due to the widespread presence of Bomb Flowers and due to the presence of a mural of what appears to be Volvagia at the entrance of Dragon Roost Cavern) during TWW. In PH, it is clear that they moved to a land that would become Goron Island and Dee Ess Island in the World of the Ocean King. As a result of this no game following TWW should have Gorons at Death Mountain.
With ST out, it is now a fact that new Hyrule has Gorons on it, residing in an unnamed mountain in the northeast of new Hyrule. I don't really think this is a point against the adult timeline order anymore. Jarsh 16:53, 22 May 2011 (EDT)
- The point isn't refuted; it states that from this game forward there should be no Gorons on Death Mountain - as you said, the mountain in Spirit Tracks is unnamed, and it would be some unfounded speculation to say that it is in fact "Death Mountain" without any in-game support. Sure, the Goron's may have moved to another mountain because that's their way of life, but the fact remains that no Gorons, even in Spirit Tracks, inhabit a "Death Mountain". It's picky, I know! This is only one con, though, and it's pretty clear that Spirit Tracks is a direct sequel to Phantom Hourglass, even considering this. User:Cipriano/sig 19:53, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
- I know the article is ignoring TMC for the sake of simplicity, but it is placed somewhere, and no matter where you place it, you have the Gorons moving from one mountain to another (TMC -> OoT = Mt. Crenel -> Death Mountain; TP -> TMC = Death Mountain -> Mt. Crenel; ST -> TMC = Unnamed mountain -> Mt. Crenel). That's why I think that it just doesn't really matter because Death Mountain consistency is impossible to have anywhere. Furthermore, the conclusion of that quote is sort of faulty anyhow, because nothing presented indicates that new Hyrule cannot ever have a Death Mountain; it even has its own Lost Woods anyhow. Jarsh 14:50, 27 May 2011 (EDT)
Actually, there's a lot here that can be reworked. The 2D child order was being pretty objective until the point about TWW's ending putting the games in the child timeline by default. There are actually other options than this: FSA began development the same year TWW was released, and FSA can be seen as a game that was perhaps intended to bridge the 2D games with TWW.
The stuff about the sages' seal also seems irrelevant to both pros and cons sections since most theorists now believe that a new Imprisoning War that's not OoT would have to happen to lead into ALttP anyway. Jarsh 11:08, 24 May 2011 (EDT)
- You say "most"; I'd like to see some editors that share the same beliefs comment here before a change like this is made... without evidence, it's anyone's call. User:Cipriano/sig 19:53, 25 May 2011 (EDT)
- I agree, that's why I wasn't hasty and deleted it, but I'm just going off my experiences over countless debates over this on Zelda Universe and Zelda Informer (which, I understand, is created by my subjective viewpoint on this matter). I think it usually ends in most agreeing that TWW implies OoT's sage seal was broken anyhow. Jarsh 14:50, 27 May 2011 (EDT)
- Actually, some of the strengths or weaknesses for both sides are self-defeating in the first place, such as the "strength" for a child timeline majority, but then goes on to mention that the supposed evidence doesn't indicate that all Zora evolved. Besides, it hardly matters since only the Oracle games show the Zora in the form we see in OoT and TP, and the article already mentions the placement of the Oracle games being irrelevant. There actually is evidence of the meaner "River Zora" existing new Hyrule in the form of Geozards.--Jarsh 23:54, 21 June 2011 (EDT)
What is wrong with my edits? I don't see the need to revert, and I've offered evidence for why the old points don't really make sense to include. As it stands, this reversion looks pretty biased, inflated, and outdated.--Jarsh 20:10, 22 June 2011 (EDT)
- 1 "Documented existence of a hero's bloodline exists in TP as well as ALttP"
- 2 I undid Jarsh's vandalism
- 3 "Sometime between the OoT and TWW, a group of Zora moved to Dragon Roost Island and evolved into the Rito and all other Zora presumably went extinct, thus no game following TWW should contain Zora."
- 4 "The implication of the ending of TWW is that Hyrule is gone" etc
"Documented existence of a hero's bloodline exists in TP as well as ALttP"
I'm in favor of the 2D child order.. but this is incorrect. ALttP Link is not confirmed to be related with any former "Link". Unless someone can prove this I don't think it should be re-added! Zeldafan1982 19:29, 7 July 2011 (EDT)
- "It has been said that whenever disaster waylays the royal family, a Hero shall emerge from the bloodline of the Knights of Hyrule..." — Sahasrahla (A Link to the Past)
- "Only a member of the Knights of Hyrule, who protected the Hylian royalty, can become the Hero... You are of their bloodline, aren't you? Then you must rescue Zelda without fail!" — Maiden (A Link to the Past)
- "You are perhaps the last one to carry on the bloodline of those knights..." — Maiden (A Link to the Past)
- "The Hero's triumph on Cataclysm's Eve wins three symbols of virtue. The Master Sword he retrieves, keeping the Knight's line true." — Pedestal of the Master Sword (A Link to the Past)
- "Although I accepted life as the hero, I could not convey the lessons of that life to those who came after." — Hero's Spirit (Twilight Princess)
- "At last, the skills I have to teach you have entered the realm of true secrecy. They are forgotten ways that do not leave our bloodline." — Hero's Spirit (Twilight Princess)
- Is this enough to prove the existence of the bloodlines? — Abdullah [T] [C] [S] 04:06, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
- Yes, I don't doubt that. My objection is on how this helps to put ALttP in the child branch. It doesn't prove that ALttP Link is descended from OoT or TP Link. Zeldafan1982 12:32, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
I undid Jarsh's vandalism
Jarsh removed a lot of stuff inappropriately, so I restored it. This is especially target at the Goron comment removal. Leftisthominid 01:02, 3 September 2011 (EDT)
"Sometime between the OoT and TWW, a group of Zora moved to Dragon Roost Island and evolved into the Rito and all other Zora presumably went extinct, thus no game following TWW should contain Zora."
Apart from OoA which takes place in Labrynna, there aren't any games after TWW, featuring sea Zoras in the 2D AT. Zeldafan1982 11:03, 3 September 2011 (EDT)
"The implication of the ending of TWW is that Hyrule is gone" etc
"The implication of the ending of TWW is that Hyrule is gone, which would have placed the 2D games in the Child Timeline by default at the time, which can remain true until a new game indicates an alternate placement."
Already included as a weakness in the AT order.
Edit: Actually this point (as it is) doesn't make sense at all since ST came out. Zeldafan1982 07:25, 10 October 2011 (EDT)